We sat down with professional organizer and lifestyle coach, Jessica Yatrofsky of Spark Joy Dwell to talk about organizing your life(style) – dealing with anxiety during the COVID-19 quarantine, life coaching, organizing your homes – WFM set-ups, the art of organization, and Spring cleaning!
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Jordan: So, our first question today is, for those of us that are feeling especially anxious right now, and have so much uncertainty in our life, what are some things that they can control? And how do you advise alleviating such stress?
Jessica: Well, I love this question. It's so apropos. Well, first of all, our homes, they really should provide stability, security, and respite for our busy lives. And when we work from home, and especially now, since where we live, has our offices, I think that it's kind of been settling in for people that maybe they're not as organized as they had hoped Or that their lifestyle isn't matching up with how they would envision it. And these things are just kind of thrown into sharp relief right now. So, if you feel like your space is out of control at the moment, many of us do, the good news is that you have the power to get it back under control. And we'll talk more about this later. But in terms of alleviating the day-to-day, I like the saying your day starts the night before. So, something really simple that you can start doing right now is reviewing your tasks for the day the night before. Whether that's making a list, reviewing your calendar, or simply just envisioning what your day looks like. So, instead of the day just coming at you, you're actively anticipating what is to come. And that is really part of being organized or becoming more organized.
Jordan: Got it. That's amazing. Yeah, I feel like that would really help me. I know I make a to-do list for work, but also just in my home life, I feel like that is really important.
Jessica: And we do it in our head too. So, sometimes, if you are a person that tends to forget, maybe writing it down will help you. But if you are more of a visual person, maybe just closing your eyes and walking through the day.
Jordan: Can you explain to us a little bit about what life coaching is and when it’s helpful to bring in a professional?
Jessica: Well, so, I work in lifestyle coaching, but the way that I work, I focus on how to create your ideal lifestyle through learning how to cultivate and curate your environment, and also in discovering your true desires. So, and I always think that it's good to brand a professional because of that accountability piece. For example, I encounter people who say that they have applied the KonMari Method, which is something we'll talk about in a little bit. And I asked them, “Oh, how did it go? Like, how was your experience?” And they say that it's the same story. I hear the same thing over and over again. They get through part of the process and they're not able to complete the entire home in the proper way because they are either distracted or something inevitably comes up where they cannot finish the process and see the entire category by category through. And also, so, this might be a good time to just describe the KonMari Method really quickly on for those who may not know what the KonMari Method is. It's a tidying method devised by Marie Kondo, where you organize your home by category and not by location, and there's five categories. The first one is clothing, then it goes books, papers, komono, and komono is something that is just considered miscellaneous items. Everything from beauty products to electronics to things in your garage. And then the very last category or the fifth category is sentimental items. So, the idea is that you evaluate these items in each category based on a criteria of whether it's, “sparks joy”, some of you may have heard that. As a consultant, I ask a lot more questions of my clients than does this item spark joy, and we get a little bit deeper into it. But you've probably heard that spark joy sentiment recently. So, that's basically more or less what the KonMari method is all about.
Jordan: I was actually recently watching some of tidying up by Marie Kondo, and went through some of that, and I think it's so cool, and a really interesting way to start going through some of your stuff.
Jessica: Yeah. I'd like to point out this to you and your audience, or people who have watched that show and find it really inspiring. I also want to make you aware that there were consultants like me helping the families through the rest of the process of finishing their homes. So, you can watch the show or you can read the book, and you can get really inspired. But if you feel like you're one of those people that means accountability, certainly, seek out help or have your friend help you or your partner. So, yeah, just know that you're not alone if you try to tackle your whole house and you're like, “Oh, I didn't do it like the couple did on the show.” It's totally fine. You can do it.
Jordan: What are some opportunities people can take advantage of during this “great pause” that we're all kind of going through right now and assessing their lifestyles?
Jessica: Well, to put a positive spin on what's going on, I think, what a great opportunity to envision what your ideal lifestyle could be. Been having a lot of talks with clients around this very idea of what do you want your life to look like? And you have the opportunity right now to examine how you're living now and decide if that's aligned with your ultimate ideal lifestyle. It's important to be observing now, we can take time to do that, and really take stock of what we have, take stock of what we're grateful for, and think about ways that we want to change, or maybe improve or adjust.
Jordan: Great. That's amazing. And so, what are some things that someone could ask themselves, reflect on and try to improve their lives upon after this chap?
Jessica: Well, I would encourage everyone to examine their true desires. That seems like a very lofty sort of idea. But you can do this. You can do this by asking yourself, what is my ideal lifestyle? Write this question down, and then put it somewhere where you can see it. Don't worry if the answers don't come right away. But write the questions down and then start thinking maybe make a list. Can you tell I love lists?
Jordan: I do too. So, this is perfect.
Jessica: Make a list and list all of the qualities of what this ideal life consists of. If you're more of a vision board type person, make pictures, make a Pinterest of what this ideal lifestyle could be. Meditate on it. Think about these desires and think about these desires in contrast to how you're currently living.
Jordan: That's great advice. So, we're going to go into more about organizing your home office right now. And the first question is going to be what are some essentials that you recommend when putting together a remote office space?
Jessica: So, this is going to be different for everyone. So, I'm just going to try to touch on it as best as I can. Finding a space first is essential. In New York, that's a whole nother beast, or in other cities where you live in smaller spaces, or even in larger spaces where you have minimal space. So, I know many of us have limitations. But if you can find a space in your home that you can dedicate to working, or mostly dedicate to working, I think that this would be ideal instead of working in different places all over the house. This helps to separate your work and your personal life somewhat as best as we can, right, with compassion. Try to make this happen with compassion. And even though we're working from home, I mean, it really doesn't mean that we shouldn't practice that work-life balance or at least attempt to.
Jordan: Right. Yeah, definitely.
Jessica: Oh, actually, can I add something to that too?
Jordan: Of course.
Jessica: I’m sorry. One thing that I wanted to mention is give yourself a uniform. Now, I know a lot of people are getting super cozy. And that's awesome. You know, be cozy, work from home in the most comfortable way that you can. But give yourself a little something that makes you feel professional. So, if that means putting on a pair of heels with your sweats, just to kind of kick it up a notch.
Jordan: Yeah, put a little pep in your step.
Jessica: Yeah, something that I like to do is whatever the case even if I'm wearing sweats, I just put red lipstick on that makes-- it gives me a little edge and it makes me feel more professional. So, just anything that you can add to make yourself feel put together before you sort of put your working cap on and get on your computer and all your Zoom meetings.
Jordan: Yeah, definitely. I know. I feel like getting dressed in the morning is something that keeps me sane a little bit. It's like okay, I’m at work now. This is my time to do this. And at the end of the day, I'll put comfy clothes on and I’m like all right. Now I'm hanging out at my house, I don’t have to worry about anything and that separates it a little bit for sure. Anyways, for those of us living in cities like New York, for instance, we have makeshift desk setups. What are some recommendations you have for making these spaces more workable?
Jessica: So, again, this is-- everybody's space is different, every apartment or home has its own challenges, but I tend to favor a spot where I can get natural light. If you can find that, that's great, I feel that that helps me stay productive, it also helps me stay connected with nature. So, if you find that useful, great. And also find a space that just can keep you in that high energy kind of mindset. So, for you, if that means you need to be in complete darkness then honor that. So, it really depends on how you feel. I don't want to get into specifics of how you should set your desk up. But just try to find a space that feels comfortable and a space where you feel like that energizes you and that you can feel productive throughout the day.
Jordan: Okay. And then what are some small things someone can do to make your desk space feel more comfortable and more Zen?
Jessica: So, if you can do something like light a candle or incense or even have a bottle of essential oil, you could take little bits of it, you know, something with fragrance at your desk. That's a great way to immediately bring in centering energy to your space. If you aren't into smells, that's okay. Perhaps a plant or a natural element like a stone, something grounding.
Jordan: Oh, yeah, that's great. I know I have a little plant on my desk, and I like to look at that and look out my windows.
Jessica: What’s your work setup? Where are you working?
Jordan: So, I actually made a space above my radiator. It was an unused space. And I have a couple of shelves above it too. So, I went to the hardware store and I made myself a little makeshift desk. It's nothing crazy, but it’s separate from everything else and I have two windows here so it's doing the job so far!
Jordan: Okay. So, let's move into spring cleaning. I want to ask you what your philosophy is in the art organization, and how do you recommend someone tackling organization projects?
Jessica: Well, as you know, I'm a huge proponent of the KonMari Method. I'm going to recommend that. I think, and the reason why I recommended it is because it's not only changed my life, but I find the actual process itself to be swift and thorough. So, I actually use that method and other aspects of my life. I apply it to my job. I even apply it to my relationships. So, if you guys are curious and eager to try something you haven't tried and have not tried the KonMari Method yet, just give it a try. I think it's really cool to use it to tackle any kind of organizational conundrum that you have right now.
Jordan: Yeah, that's great. And then what are your thoughts on minimalism in general?
Jessica: So, a lot of controversy with minimalism. I just want to start off by saying that Marie Kondo is not a minimalist. She does not call herself a minimalist. I do. Living with less, I think is one of the hallmarks of minimalism, but I also feel like there's levels of minimalism. The way that I interpret, or practice minimalism is living with less clutter. So, I also kind of view it as a mindset. Not kind of, I view it as a mindset. So, this mindset of minimalism extends onto how I behave as a consumer. And I know we're going to talk a little bit about that later. But I think it is cliché to say, but it's so true that less is more. The less you have, the less you have to clean up, the less you have to sort of take care of and maintain. So, I love minimalism for that effect that it's had on my life.
Jordan: Yeah, definitely. Are there any seasonal or weekly rituals you recommend people implement in their lives? And what are some that you are doing right now?
Jessica: Yeah. Well, I like to set intentions, even if they don't happen. I think it’s just a really good practice and it keeps the mind busy. But each season I'll check in, I'll set an intention. I'll journal and I also go back sometimes if they're seasonal intentions, I'll just check back in with how I feel about it now and yeah, that's the kind of journaling I'll do seasonally. The journaling is a great practice. If you have the desire to journal weekly, I think that that's an awesome ritual. I'm not really good at doing it daily. I know there's something called Morning Pages. Have you heard of Morning Pages?
Jordan: No, I haven't. What is it?
Jessica: Okay. I can send you a link. You can share it with your audience as well. Morning Pages are good because you're writing every morning. It's particularly good for people who are creative, but if you're speaking to me and you're one of my clients, you're a creative person. I think everybody is creative. They just need to tap into that side of themselves. So, I highly recommend journaling and sort of making that a ritual. And also, being easy. Don't do it every day if you feel like this is a drag to do it. Only do it if you feel like it's productive for you.
Jordan: Great. So, if someone is looking to do an organization recall, where should they begin? And is there an order that you think is best?
Jessica: Well I'm going to say the closet. Your wardrobe, I think, holds the key to that ideal lifestyle. That's the first step in identifying your ideal lifestyle. And I think that something easy that people could do just to kind of begin the process. Or maybe I can just lay this into your subconscious is if you want to look at your wardrobe, if you want to even start the process of a spring cleaning or discarding, if you will, I think that if you can first collect all of your clothes everywhere around the house, anything laying out anywhere, with the exception of if something's at the laundry, those are probably items that you're wearing all the time anyway. And take everything out of drawers, take everything out of the closet, bring it all into one space. And this is helpful because you want to get a full picture of everything you own before you start going through everything as you're going to want to categorize things. So, put shirts with shirts, pants with pants, pajamas with pajamas, skirts with skirts. And by doing that, I think it's more helpful to go through each category and make an honest assessment. Because if you are just going through drawer by drawer, you can forget what was in the previous drawer. Or you can forget that you have pants that are also hanging up while you have pants in a drawer. So, bringing everything together and taking a real look at the quantity and also the quality of the items is like the first-- that's like no brainer go-to.
Jordan: Yeah, that makes total sense. I feel like I only know half of what I have because I don't look at it as a whole. I'll do my closet first then I'll do my drawers and I'm sure I have repeat items or things that are super similar that I probably don't need two of. But I think that is super smart. Okay. So, as you all know, sometimes life gets in the way of staying organized for a long period of time. And so, what are the steps that someone can take to successfully keep order into their space?
Jessica: So, once you've tidy or organized your home, you've hopefully found a home for everything in your home, everything has its place, and what is that phrase? Everything in its place in a place for everything, something like that?
Jordan: Yeah, something like that.
Jessica: I'm terrible. I always mess up these little lines. So, I think that my advice is to keep an eye on your consumption after you've organized your home. Always keep your ideal lifestyle in mind and hold yourself accountable. So, you want to check-in, look at the intentions you set for yourself, and compare. So, say you set a goal that you wanted more species zen-like home and you want all of the decks to be clear, and just clear countertops. But every time you go out shopping, or if you're online shopping and you just keep gravitating towards tchotchkes and trinkets you soon have a problem, you know. So, I think that-- I myself know that advertising can be very hypnotizing. So, that's why I kind of lean on and often refer to this keeping alive in your mind this idea of your ideal lifestyle. Because then when you're out shopping, you can keep that vision of yourself as the zen spacious household, and then you're not mindlessly consuming. And you know, I fall into the same shopping pitfalls where I'm attracted to something in a colorful display, and then I suddenly snap out of it and I file through all of the clothes that I have purchased over the years that I do not wear or did not wear and ultimately ends up discarding and that brings in to focus the sustainability piece. You don't want to be wasteful and you don't want to over-consume. You want to be more thoughtful. And also, so it's about being real with yourself. And also, once you go through the categories, your clothes, you've made it easier to shop with a clear purpose.
Jordan: Definitely. I know I'm guilty of going to the store and seeing something bright or colorful and I bring it home, and then I don't have anything to wear it with.
Jessica: Yeah and I think we spoke about this earlier, I'll find a top that I love. And then I'll get it in six different colors. And I’m like, “What are you doing? You only wear black and white.” So, there's that whole thing. So, if you can remind yourself that when you're out, I think that, that helps. And also, long lines help because you can really start to look at what you've picked up, and see if the quality is good. And often I'll just, when I get to the register, get rid of a few things. And it's also good to practice too. I mean, we don't have to get into this a lot, but just to kind of touch on it very lightly. When you bring new items into your home, you should love them so much and there should be room for them. So, the idea of not having closets and drawers overflowing is really key. And if you're a minimalist too, it’s extremely key.
Jordan: Yeah, definitely. So, speaking of clothing, do you recommend capsule wardrobes?
Jessica: I think we've determined that a capsule wardrobe is around 33 items?
Jordan: Yes, I think so.
Jessica: Capsule wardrobe is very advanced. If we're wrong, you can also correct us in the comments.
Jordan: Pease do, please do if we’re getting the stat wrong, let us know.
Jessica: So, it's very advanced to me, maybe not to you. And I think that I would encourage people to try it if they're curious. I personally do not structure my wardrobe that way. I like to practice a capsule collection. I'm a wannabe capsule wardrobe person when I travel, and that's still hard. So, there's also something called, wear everything in your closet challenge. This is really cute and really fun. It's a challenge where you wear a different item in your closet every day. And at the end of the day, if you decide that you do not like that item, you can discard it, or you can keep it. Some people, they're reviving their wardrobe in that way because they're realizing that it suits them or something doesn't. But that can be something fun to do during quarantine. It's an actual challenge. I think it's a blog or Instagram or something. I don't-- I'm so sorry, I can't credit it right now.
Jordan: I’ll look into it as well.
Jessica: Yeah, I highly recommend that. I mean, I've had instances in my apartment where I'm doing a purge or a spring cleaning and I'll throw on a cocktail dress and keep cleaning with the cocktail dress on. And I'm like, no it’s not my thing.
Jessica: Yeah, I'm like, now it's like what are you doing in the middle of the day with a cocktail dress on cleaning the house? It’s like, I'm trying to see if this cocktail dress is-- if I can clean in it too. But yeah, anyways.
Jordan: Oh, that's great. I'm definitely going to have to try that challenge. I feel like actually putting the piece on and wearing it, even if it's just in your apartment, and then deciding if you want to keep it or not is really cool.
Jessica: Yeah, it's less commitment too because if you wear something itchy or ill-fitting and then you're at work all day with that item, you're like, “Oh, I made a bad choice.” So, I was like, this is a great quarantine activity. Just kind of cycled through that whole wardrobe.
Jordan: So, during COVID-19 a lot of us are beginning to reflect on our purchasing decisions and our habits. And so, what are some thoughts that you recommend for people to consider before making their next purchase? And then how can someone curb impulse shopping?
Jessica: So, you can ask yourself again is this in line with my ideal lifestyle as your shopping? And I know, it's easy to impulse purchase things online, like in your cart. But if you can just do a quick second envision your life with that item or without it and you're like, do you need it? Normally, I would tell people to sleep on it. But I don't know if you've experienced this with online shopping during the quarantine. But I'll put something in my cart and it's gone.
Jordan: Yeah, it happens so fast. It's crazy!
Jessica: Yes. So, I feel like if you can try to expedite, you're getting in touch with your intuition and just be like, do I need this? Is this essential or you know, is this something that's so awesome that it's going to help you be excited about ordering something special for yourself if it's within your needs right now, and you want to purchase it, so do it. But keep in mind this idea of what your ideal lifestyle is. And we're in a very unique time where we're learning what we can live without. So, we should really take that knowledge with us when our normal day to day restore somewhat and apply it. And once you clean and declutter your home, you become very aware and very in touch with what's worthy of now entering your home, even people, even people. I think we're learning this too. Who's showing up for us, who were showing up for, I think that's good vibes only. And then the last point I wanted to make was remember that you are paying rent to live in your space and that your belongings are not paying the rent. So, make sure that anything at your house is worthy of living there rent-free.
Jordan: Yeah, that is really great advice. And then so for those tuning in with families, how do you get your partner and your kids involved in tidying up, and do you have any recommendations for people with roommates like myself?
Jessica: So, my advice would be try not to get the family involved if you sense any resistance. I think it's best to handle your belongings first on your own, tidy your own spaces. And I find often when clients are focusing on their own problems, their own belongings, their own spaces, people take notice. And also things, and I think Marie talks about this in her book, that things tend to bother you less, other people's messes tend to bother you less when you have your place in the home organized, when you have your things-- I know, especially here in New York, with families it's crowded, it's really crowded right now. But if you can just kind of focus on what your stuff in the house is, what your space in the house is, and tidy that and organize that, you'll find that people will see the results, your family will see the results and they'll maybe be inclined to do the same thing. So, my advice would be to inspire them and not forcefully enlist them. And also something that I wanted to mention too, if you have little ones, you could tidy with them or you can maybe tidy on their behalf if they're small enough. So, there's not an age limit necessarily, but you can tidy with them. And Marie Kondo actually just published a book not too long ago. I should have brought it out, but it's a children's book on tidying.
Jordan: Oh, that’s great.
Jessica: Yeah. I read it to myself the other night. I read myself a bedtime story and it really touched me. So, if you have little ones, maybe just read them a story about tidying.
Jordan: Okay, so let's see. The last question in this category. With people spending more time at home more than ever, what are some things that someone can do to bring a little bit of life or a little bit of spring into their home?
Jessica: If you can open your windows, if you have them. I’m in New York, so it’s a hot commodity to have a window. Bring in life plants, salt lamps are great, lighting Sage or Palo Santo. And I also, I think anything that engages the senses or evokes elements of or smells of spring. I also use something called a sun patch lamp when it's overcast, it's a special light. And you turn it on, and I think you can get it on Amazon. But yeah, those are some of the ways to kind of bring spring in. I mean, take a walk in the fresh air with a mask on.
Jordan: Yes, yes.
Jessica: I see a lot of people are running and jogging without masks on out here. And so, get your fresh air but not at the expense of other people's lives. So, that’s my tip for wearing a mask.
Jordan: Yeah, wear a mask outside. Okay, perfect. Thank you so much. So, now we're going to go into the “Name our Favorite” category. And so this is where again, you and me will be providing our favorite resources related to self-care and organization. I will let you lead but I’ll name off the categories. So, the first one is your favorite self-care organization book and why.
Jessica: So, I love Getting Things Done by David Allen. It's a big book. He’s written a lot of books, right? I listened to the audiobook. But I actually listened to it while I'm cleaning, and it makes me feel really inspired and energized and charged up. So, I recommend David Allen's book. He talks about something called Inbox Zero. I love that. I love that concept. Just like not even my email but in life. And then also I have two books, this one that just came out last week. So, Marie Kondo just released this last week. It's called Joy at Work. And she wrote it with this guy, I'm not going to pronounce his last name, but you get the gist, he wrote a book called Stretch. So, they're showing you how to apply the method in an office space, which I go into corporate clients, offices as well, and apply the methods. So, get this book, because it's really interesting. I have it, but I'm listening to it on Audible. So, of course, and how about you?
Jordan: So, my favorite, this is more like self-care, but it's The Subtle Art of Not Giving a The F*ck by Mark Manson. And it's just a really interesting way of viewing things and kind of like figuring out what is important and what you should just kind of stop thinking about and I find it really easy to read. I think sometimes for me, self-help books are, I don't know, I just can't really get through them. And so this was a very easy read for me and I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I highly recommend it. So, the next one is your favorite podcast and why.
Jessica: Okay. And so I'm going to take this time to announce something very special that I've been working on with my partner, co-host, Dan Ryan. We are releasing, well we released last night, the first episode of our podcast called Mind Space Minimal. And I'm so excited to premiere it here.
Jordan: Oh, yeah, congratulations!
Jessica: Nobody knows about it yet. But now you do. And so, we're going to be dropping new episodes every week and we take a deep dive into some of the ideas that we were discussing here today. So, definitely check it out if you're interested. It spans across organizations to minimalism, to art, to hypnosis, to mysteries of the mind. So, we're super excited about it and worked really hard on it. And what a better time to release it than now?
Jordan: I'm so excited to listen, I cannot wait. I'm going to search for it after this. So, my favorites, I recently started listening to The Lively Show, and it's centered around self-reflection. They have a lot of different speakers come on, and I find that I like doing it again while I'm cleaning, but it just goes into a deep dive into different self-care topics. And then the second one I really like is Mama Minimalist. They're kind of short and sweet episodes. I want to say they're 20 minutes long usually, but it gives you tips and tricks on decluttering and then living sustainably.
Jessica: I really want to check that out.
Jordan: Yeah, I'll send it to you. So, the next one is your favorite app, and why?
Jessica: So, I really love SiriusXM. I’m a big talk radio junkie and they have just great music channels. And then something that I learned just recently is that it's actually free.
Jordan: Oh, awesome.
Jessica: Yeah, if you want to sign up and people want to sign up, it's free. It's definitely worth checking out. There's so many channels on SiriusXM. I do not work for them. I'm not sponsored by them. I just absolutely love SiriusXM and I have it. You know, that's the app that I use the most on my phone besides a calculator.
Jordan: So, my favorite, it's called Insight Timer and its a guided meditation app. So, I like it because you can go from five minutes to 10 minutes to an hour to three hours if you want. And I prefer a guided meditation, so I really like it. And they have a ton of different people on there and stuff. But I really like it because some days I only have time to do five minutes. Other days, I want to do a full hour and so it allows me to pick and choose. And then so what is your favorite in-home workout right now?
Jessica: So, we were talking about yoga before?
Jessica: And I've also been doing the online yoga thing since being in quarantine. But I do practice Transcendental Meditation. I do TM every day twice a day and that's sort of my workout. But I also want to give a shout out to Yoga with Cassandra. It's been amazing. I just learned of her channel and I've been doing you know, little workouts daily. I think I've mentioned this to you before but what I did not mention to you before it just popped back into my head is that I've been doing Nightly, this nighttime yoga and it's 15 minutes and you do it in bed. And then you fall asleep. There's a part where she says, I encourage you to get under the covers now for this last part for shavasana, and I have a weighted blanket. So, I'm like, good night. I'll send it to you.
Jordan: Yes, please do!
Jessica: It's amazing. I go right into a very deep sleep.
Jordan: I'm definitely going to check that out. Yeah, same with me. I've been doing yoga during the quarantine. And my favorite channel is Yoga with Adriene. Right now she's doing At Home 30 Day Challenge. So, it's 30 Days of Yoga. I really like it because it's not super intense, but it goes in waves. So, you'll do a couple of pretty hard workouts, although they're only 30 minutes long. But then there'll be one that's just deep breathing. There's one that's just connecting and grounding. So, it kind of gives you a spectrum and I've been really, really liking it so far.
Jordan: I do just want to say thank you and I do want to give you an opportunity for any viewers that want to connect with you after this, how can they get in touch with you?
Jessica: So, they can DM me, they can visit my website at SparkJoyDwell.com. Okay. So, I'll leave my website before we shut this down and feel free to DM me. I am offering 10% off of all of my virtual services right now so if you DM me or email to SparkJoyDwell right after this Live you'll receive a code and the first 10 people to sign up before May 1st for any service at all will get a free in-home tidying kit. So, feel free to reach out if you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me. And thank you so much this has been awesome.